"The problem is solved by writing to the NPRC, National Personnel Records Center, in St. Louis , MO. You can get a form from your local state or county Veterans Service Officer that you fill out and ask for ALL of your service records. There will be an entry on one of the papers that comes back from the NPRC that shows all of your deployments ( I just got mine). As a former Comgressional Aide, I suggest that the form you fill out gets taken to your current Congressman and insist that his Veterans Caseworker send it in to the Congressional Section of the NPRC with a cover letter from the Congressman ( not hard to do). This will insure that it doesn't get ignored. If you do it without, you will never, and I mean never, get anything back.
The last request I sent in, before leaving congressional service, were for my own records. I did it in December and got my records in February. I actually used the records I mentioned earlier, to prove 1st Mob duty during the time the Presidential Unit award was designated for. I sent in for the correction to my DD-214 just last week. That is done with a form for Correction of Military Records. I will be glad to further advise any fellow Mobster who have any other problems with this kind of stuff.
Mike - NavAides shop 65-67
"I do this stuff as a volunteer service officer for The American Legion. This is a common problem with the VA. Some regional offices are worse than others. My orders (which I kept) sent me from Clark to Cam Rahn Bay on a 'team' that had a number. It does not say Viet Nam and the VA will do anything and everything humanly possible to deny a veteran's claim and his due justice. That is established. Contrary to Federal Law....but in view of this, there are some options. Maxwell AFB holds the Air Force Museum and may be worth a trip for the veteran there to do research. Passport won't do it to my knowledge. Buddy statements DO help. The internet is a valuable resource for finding people and yourweb page is a great start. A veteran can not deal with the VA alone. He must have a service organization power of attorney. In Michigan, The American Legion is the hands down leader in representing vets. The DAV does a good job too. Seek organization and service officer that has a good track record and is dedicated. One that takes the stand that NO is not an option. Adult onset diabetes Type II requires a diagnosis, ongoing treatment and proof of in-country service. Automatic 20% Service Connection and up. Now he has to prove in-country. TDY orders DO count. No time limit...1 day or 1 year in-country, no difference. The VA is going to make him prove in-country duty. The TDY orders should be sufficient as they have access to all pertinent records. The fact that the orders do not specify Viet Nam is a cowardly way for them to try to abort their legal duty and obligation to assist the veteran. The main key is DO NOT accept a denial. I have personal knowledge and experience. Forward this to the veteran if you wish. He has to shop for a good representative. Service organizations work for free, lawyers don't know the subject matter (Title 38) as well and are very expensive."
"In response to your posting of the above subject, I have experienced that
problem with the VA since I was diagnosed with Diabetes Type II. I was
fortunate enough to have saved copies of my TDY orders placing me in Vietnam.
I submitted these orders and my DD214s with my original application to the
VA. My DD214, for that period, stated that I had been awarded the VSM, which
is not acceptable as "proof of service," to the VA. VA's first response was
in their referrel to my medical examiner. The author of that referral stated
that I had "never set foot in Vietnam." This document, along with copies of
my TDY orders, was sent to my Congressmen, Trent Lott and Gene Taylor. This
got the VA's attention. I was asked for further "Proof" by the VA as though
they had never received any documents from me. With this submission, I
included a copy of an APR, stating my mission responsibilities and
accomplishments as a Team Commander, on four different occasions in Vietnam.
This APR was endorsed by Col. Urban and he stated that he had personally
observed me in action in Vietnam. This received immediate attention and the
VA acknowledged my "Proof of Service" and awarded the standard eligibility.
Conclusion: Proof of Service
o Any document that can places you there.
o A sworn statement from anyone that saw you there.
o A Congressman that has your interest.
I have documents that places the following personnel in Vietnam:
Col William Shine, Johnnie T. Ticer, Riley D. Keener, Thomas H. Bowen, Edward Mangold, Ronald K. Tuck, William L. Shaw, Raleigh Crump.
I hope this information can be of help."
Tom (Dave) 67-68
"Having just retired from the Air Force and receiving a DD-214 that does not
reflect all of my overseas tours, especially the "then classified" ones like
Sarajevo (before IFOR) etc. I have some advise for you because I am trying
to get mine corrected.
You need to submit a DD-149 (I've attached a copy)Get DD-149 Form along with anything you
may have including Performance Reports, Medals, possibly even a few pages
from you military medical records. Please note that this is an Adobe
Acrobat file and a free version of the software can be found at:
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep.html . This is only a Reader
and you will not be able to type into the form, but you'll be able to open
it and print it and type in you information.
The address to send the form to is on the back of the form.
I hope this helps. Good luck!"
"I went through the exact thing your message covers. I had gone through all steps I could think of with no good news. I had several notarized letters, but good old VA still wasn't buying. Finally in desperation, I wrote AF records at Randolph and requested an audit of my records to prove Vietnam service. The only thing that saved me was a reference in one of my APR's about my being in Nam. The VA bought that and approved both the diabetes and Non-Hodgkins-Lymphoma claims.
If any "mobsters" still have copies of their APR's, they should check it for references to VietNam service, and if not, they should have AF records audit their files for proof of Vietnam service. VA will accept copies of APR's as proof. Any people in this category would be well advised to do this ASAP due to the long lag time VA takes. Sam Hatton who passed away a couple of months ago had been fighting with VA for 3 years and still had not proven Vietnam service when he died.
You're doing a good thing to bring this to everyone's attention."
"I have some copies of orders that were issued for some personnel along with myself for service in Vietnam. The dates are mainly in 1966 and some in 1967. Anyone who wants can contact me with their name, etc and I will look at my copies of orders and see if they were on them. The locations were Quin Yon, Tuy Hoa, and Bein Hoa.....not sure of spelling on these. Anyway, if anyone wants information about their names being on my orders, have them contact me"Please see "Alumni TDY Order Search Request" on the Proof of Service menu - Don Devine
Thanks - Ken 66-67
"I recently used the travel voucher copies and a copy
of TDY orders to support and agent orange claim with
the VA. They accepted that with out any trouble. So
if the guys saved their orders and the copy of the
paid travel voucher they should be in good shape."
"In the year and a half that I was in the Mob in Japan - - I
was not there most of the time - spent it in Guam - Formosa - Thailand -
Australia - Vietnam - and etc. As you know - - we were not to tell even
our family where we were going to be when we left - and I think most did
not. As I remember it - - the orders were cut sending you to a team
location. Like team 23-59, but there was no country ever shown in the
orders ,as I remember. That was just the 23rd team deploryed in 1959.
After we moved to the P I , we became a Group and we received many
new men from Mob units in the states. I became the Projects Officer and
Assnt. Ops Officer. It was my job to keep track of all of our men and
equipment in S E Asia . This was all shown on our status boards by team
location only. Many of these locations were Secret - or - Top Secret
even at that time. Other than myself, I think that the only ones in the
outfit who knew where all of these team locations were , was
LtCol. Woodward , Maj. Kugal and two of our great NCOs that worked in
Ops. I did not do many TDYs that year other than visit some of our teams
in the field.
When I came back to the states in the summer of 1962 , I could not
believe that anybody here in the USA seemed to know that anything was
going on over there in S.E. Asia. As I remember it, when I left the Mob, there were about 900 men that we had scattered all over that part of
the world. I can remember at least four large teams in Vietnam at that
"I replied to Larry Olesen but I am unable to be of any help. I did encounter this problem, and know what he is refering to. As I told him, this same problem has always perplexed me. This is the first time I know of anyone bringing it up. But I do believe it is a big problem." - John 67-68
"To add another layer to the situation described when applying for VA disability regards diabetes one must provide "proof of in-country service". I served in the Ist Mob from October 1965 through June 1970 , had numerous TDY's to Viet Nam and cannot provide one set of Orders to support my claim. Can anyone help? One tid-bit of information that might help follows: Veterans who want their records should file a Form 180. It is available from the National Archives and Records Administration, 8601 Adelphi Road, College Park, MD 20740, telephone 301-713-6800. Internet users can download it from www.nara.gov/regional/mpr.html. I havn't tried this yet because the VA allows one year to appeal their decision - but I will. Good luck." - Don 65-70
"That's a tough one. I don't have any proof for any of the tdy's that I was
on. There are a couple of other ways of showing proof that may or may not
be acceptable to the VA:
1. The DD-214 should show that a person was awarded the Vietnam Service
Medal, Campaign Medal and the Vietnam Gallantry Cross w/palm if they served
2. Pay records should show receipt of Combat Pay and per diem for Vietnam.
for whatever period he was there.
3. Copies of APR's may help prove VN service.
4. Medical records may show treatment in VN if the guy got one of those
Copies of all of the above should be able to be obtained from the records
center. If I think of anything else I'll let you know." - Jim 60-63
"Just read your E-Mail about trying to prove service in combat areas. I was on 3 deployments while in the PI. to Nam, Cam Rahn, Nha Trang and Khe Sahn. While at Nha Trang I remember C-130s flying over spraying, what I assume was ,Agent Orange.
You are absolutly correct, there is no way some of us can prove service in
certain areas or at specfic times. Such was life in an outfit such as ours,
we will never get the AF to acknowledge that we were there, or even where
I am sure that most, if not all, of us have come to realize that the govt.
doesn't really care about us after we have served our purpose. We are given a
pat on the head , put on the shelf and told to go away and don't bother them.
We really, as Retirees, don't have a voice or input to those who can make
changes. Certain congress members and Senators care, but they seem to be
pissing into the wind, as it were. They can't seem to muster enough support
with their fellow members in order to make any difference as far as Vet's are
concerned. The VA doesn't seem to care, maybe that's a money issue on their
part. That goes back to the prioites the Govt. places on our past service.
In closing let me say that I think our troops that are now engaged in Iraq
deserve ALL our support! Hopefully they all come back safe and sound. Some of
the ex Mobsters know , or have some idea, just what they are feeling and/or
going thru. Thank you for listening." Wayne 69-71
"I don't know what could be done for Vets that served back in your day, but when I was with the MOB (92-98), the Mobility section kept records on every deployment, and would provide each member a personal copy of their TDY's, if asked. The only other idea that comes to mind, is to see if military financial records were maintained by the USAF, since those types of deployments generally have to come from a specific fund to support it. Hope this helps.
My prayers and best regards to our brothers and sisters carrying the fight to our enemies." Brian 92-98
"My DD-214 shows deployment to the SOG Unit 1 Mob in the Philippines.
The Brown Pass Port was used for TDY travel.
I had three 6 month TDY's during that time.
The US Embassy in Thailand handled the receiving deployments through the JUSMAG compound on Satorn road.
The Pass Ports were not stamped as the military handled in country travel through JUSMAG.
Military personnel entered not through normal customs, but as military advisors supporting the Thai Military with JUSMAG sponsors and were assigned to
Thai Army or Air Force bases under the command of the local commanding office for that particular Post or Air Base.
JUSMAG is an attachment of the US Embassy in Thailand and as such is listed on their Web Site. Still Active!
It is a Joint United States Military Advisory Group Under State Department control.
JUSMAG still is in operation and handling Intelligence endeavors and is known as MAC-THAI (Military Advisory Command in Thailand)
MAC-V in Vietnam did the same thing in the same way. (Military Advisory Command in Viet Nam)
So, The US State Department in DC should have records of all in-country travel of US servicemen.
Just who to ask is the question. I suspect some data may be in the State Department archives.
Getting them to admit we were in Laos and Thailand and Cambodia in support of that War may be hard to do.
I would start with a freedom of information request for personal records and issued Visas."
"During my tour with the Mob ('72-'73), I did TDY in Viet Nam, Thailand,
Korea, and Japan. Now I happen to be a diabetic. Fortunately it is
recorded in my medical records even if I can't prove TDY in Viet Nam by
military orders. Physicians at Clark AB in RPI made a comment about a blood
sugar level during a physical exam. The VA accepts that and provides care
for diabetes when needed.
A check of medical records for any symtoms before separation or
retirement may be worthwhile.
Hope this may help." Fr. Bill+ 72-73
"In nearly all cases, a small amount of TDY funds were paid to each of us. Usually from group orders, but a buck or two; therefore, a copy of payment would provide the dates away from garrison, in each of pay records. In most cases it does not prove WHERE, but sometimes just the dates are of some help.
Even when room (tent) and board (C-Rats) were provided, an allowance was required to be paid. Even today, it is only $3.51, I think, but still "TDY pay".
Hope that helps."
"I had a similar experience several years ago when I tried to get the local VA hospital to give me and examination for Agent Orange.
I was able to get it (the exam) partly because of my job. If you remember I am a news reporter for a local TV station and we did a story, to inform other Viet Nam vets that the examination was available to them.
But I also contacted my local Congressman and got his help. Maybe if people contact their local politicians, enough pressure can be applied to help them.
"I was deployed to a number of locations, none of which are stamped in my passport. I still have my orders to most of the TDYs, but I'm not sure if I have all of them." Tom 60-62
"I served with Larry at Clark, but was never deployed with him. I too was an air traffic controller, and was assigned to the first team deployed to Tan Son Nhut. I was in country between April '63 and August, I think but my memory isn't clear. When I returned to Clark, Doug Happ would follow a few days later to replace me. Again, we were always rotating, and perhaps Larry and Doug were assigned at the same time.
Other members of my team included Leo Testa, Marv Miller, Bill or George Moyer, and a George something from somewhere in Fla, with Tsgt Greene as team captain..
For what it's worth, I have Diabetes type II, but the VA is treating me. It took a long time though. I tried to get on the program from June 2001, and got the royal runaround until Feb '03. FYI my DD-214 does reflect service in VN." Joe 62-64
"I usually was sent TDY on AF Form 626, Temporary Duty Orders. When
I retruned to Clark, I filed for reimbursement for travel expenses, etc., on
DD Form 1351-2, Travel Voucher, listing all the places I visited with dates
and times. The Accounting and Finance office gave me back a copy with their
information and amount paid. So maybe if the person kept the Travel Voucher,
it could be used as proof." Bob 65-66
"I served in the MOB from May 54 to July 56. I don't recall having any orders when we went into Indo China as it was called then, I don't remember if it was in 54 or 55, but we went in to get the French out ( should have left them there). I did not have a passport and don't recall anyone with me having one. We also served in Korea, Formosa, Iwo Jima during the big hurricane that ripped it apart. Some of the MOBBERS served in other areas in Japan (Missawa) for one place. We spent time in Okinawa, Johnston Island, I don't remember the name of the first CO I served under at Johnson AFB Japan, but the last one I served under was Major Gilbert H. Birtie. All of my records, pictures and memorability was destroyed by fire in 1970. I was discharged from active duty in July of 1960, with a disability. I think we need to have a good round table at the next reunion. Sorry I can't be of more help." Ike 54-56
"When I was TDY to Thailand, I had to show the TDY order's and my
Travel Voucher showing that the Trip was in fact completed. Guess
beyond that iI don't have any personal expierience. Possibly finding
someone stationed with an individual providing a Statement to the effect
that they knew they had been there. Good luck in getting records straightened out."
"You are correct. Many (maybe most) of my deployments between mid 64
thru the end of 66 were classified ... some severely. I don't know how
I would document them now except through contacts with other MOB troops,
and even then, it's unclear that anyone would accept that.
My experiences with the VA have been universally bad, and then ranged
downward from that. I currently "suffer" (I hate that word but it's
what everyone uses) from the usual physical effects of my early life
... I guess I am lucky, despite eating and drinking AO, I'm still
pretty well in the median for my age and lifestyle in terms of disease
I saved little documentation from those years ... I'm puzzled now at 62
... these were some of the most memorable years and most memorable
friends of my lifetime. My wife tells me they were also some of the
most traumatic, and so getting rid of the physical artifacts of them was
important to me. Perhaps she was right.
You know my years in the MOB ... I'll help anyone with what I can
remember from that time. Feel free to direct them to me."
Best Regards, Fred 1LT 64-66