"As you may or may not know, I was in the 1st MOB from Jun 65 to Jul 68.-Personnel Officer from Jun65 to Jan66, when I became the Squadron CO. I have sent Mark Cox a statement (notarized) saying what I did , and certified I knew Mark served in-country. In his case it worked- a minor miracle considering we were dealing with VA St. Petersburg, FL. I also sent one for Sam Hatton. one of Mark's troops. Sam had sent the VA an amended DD214 showing award of the Vietnam Service Medal (VSM) too. Unfortunately Sam passed away several weeks back. I know Mark will keep in touch with Sam's wife Joan- and if anything comes of the efforts, I'll make sure you are filled in. All of this to bring up a point: If anyone is in receipt of the VSM or the Vietnam Campaign Medal (VCM) they should be listed on the DD214 under Awards as VSM or VCM. Some VA adjudicators either don't know what they are- or they ignore them. So for anyone denied who has those awards-- point them out to the VA numbnuts- with an info copy to Reps and Senators. I encourage those with problems with the VA in recognizing RVN service to get sworn statements from team chiefs, particularly if the team chief was an officer. It's bullshit, but VA gives more credence to them. I am willing to sign statements for the guys who served during the time I was there, but I'll need some memory-jogging with as much detail as possible. In other words, I must be able to recall the folks- I won't fabricate. I have a copy of the MOB history for the three years I was there- lots of numbers and times for the team deployments, but not a lot of individual names. As for the diabetes and Agent Orange thing; Don't know if you know it but Clark AB was the depot-level maintenance facility for C-123s. The Ranch Hands- the 309th and 19th Defoliation Squadrons based at Tan Son Nhut flew C-123s-- and were regular visitors to Clark. Since a handful of their pilots were OCS classmates of mine, I saw a lot of them while at Clark - and had an informal arrangement with a lot of them to give 1st MOB people- particularly the pay agents- transport in either direction-Clark to TSN or TSN to Clark. They also hauled some of our equipment and personnel on occasion-if memory serves me right. It's a real bitch when we end up going through the hassle to prove to a bunch of bed-wetters in the VA system that we did what we did- but for Gods sake tell everyone NOT TO GIVE UP!! Keep on fighting!!" ILLEGITIMI NON-CARBURUNDUM" ---DON'T LET THE BASTARDS GRIND YOU DOWN!!" - Jim 65-68

If anyone wants to contact Jim, email me for his contact info:

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The VA is supposed to be operating on a "Must assist" basis for helping Vets prove their claims. If anyone can obtain an affidavit from another service member that proves presence in the theater, then that, along with their own affidavit and a set of orders will be sufficient proof. Also, even though it usually takes months, the national military archives (NARA) has copies of those old travel orders. Just have to send them a request and then bug them continuously for a few months to get your document copies. Here is the link to request a copy of your records on a SF180. St. Louis Archives
Hope this helps someone, Don 85-90

My time is from mid 65 thru late 67. I do have TDY orders, but also awards and decs which substantiate SEA service and tax exemptions for SEA time($500/mo remember?). The DD 214 should (?) show decoration etc and the IRS could provide copies of old returns. Hope this helps. Bill 65-67

Just read your post about Larry Olesen trying to get anything he can to show proof of service. I don't believe I have any TDY orders with him on them but just for your information, I did retain virtually every set of TDY orders to Nam and also Thailand while I was in the 1876th GEEIA Sq.(1962-1964), !st Mob (1965-1967), 1961st Comm Grp.(1977-1980). If anyone is searching for a set of TDY orders and in the remote chance they may be included on the same set I have retained, I would be more than happy to look up to see if they are on any of mine and send them a copy via e-mail. For your information. John '65-'67

NARA | Research Room | Access to Military Service and Pension Records
Hi, Guys! If you click on the address above, you will reach the site to obtain copies of Morning Reports from your team showing you were deployed in country on ground. Also, of great help in settling the case was our US Representative. I was in team 44-65 at Cam Rahn, Da Nang and Na trang, 65-66. Diagnosed with Prostate Cancer in 1992, in Feb 1999 the VA said, you know the rest of the story. Good luck, the first year after applying for compensation all I got was the run a round, the second year I got ahold of my State Representative. Things then started to roll along a little bit better, but still SLOW. The biggest thing was being in the USAF, were you on the ground or in the air flying over the country? This question came up a lot of times. Larry, I hope this bit of info helps you out, and any other Alumnus out there. God Bless our Country and our Troops and ALL of us. - Dick 65-66

Most of this is information that is too late for most members but what has helped me is that I had several copies of TDY orders that even though the destination was listed as classified the specific order # can be traced back and eventually linked to a specific destination. Granted this is a long and tedious process but it can be done. Luckily for us the Government gives up it's money somewhat grudingly and seeks to track all of it's expenditures and hence they keep a record of them and to whom it was paid. I don't know how long it keeps them but that is how I prove my time in country for both Desert Storm and whole Bosian thing. I don't know if that can help anyone that's in the position of that stuff being long gone. - Andy 92-96

I had a very similar problem. I did find a copy of my original orders sending me to Viet Nam and found the orders extending me there and then orders directing me back to Clark AB.
At first the VA would not accept them as proof of Viet Nam service. I had to enlist the help of my US Senator who intervened on my behalf. I took approximately 2 months to get my benefits. Later I found a copy of my Pay Records that reflected my travel there and returned. It had the paymaster stamp from Clark.
I wish there was a designated site that we could all post our TDY orders to. That would help those that have lost their copies to get new copies for situations such as this. - Robert 65-66

(See button on Proof of Service menu to request a search by Alumni Members from your Mob Years of their TDY orders for your name. - Don Devine)

I have been trying to get more detailed information on my Dad. As you know, this can be quite a trick. I wonder when/if classified info becomes un-classified?
My latest result came after I filled out (another) form from the NARA website. I had wanted details on my Dad's missions, a listing of his awards and decorations and a chronological listing of service. They actually sent me medals....which I didn't ask for, but was pretty neat to receive. Of course the details on his missions were only in the form of the citations that accompany awards.
I don't know if this means anything that would help you, but the form numbers at the bottom of the basic info reads: AF FORM 11 JAN 66 PREVIOUS EDITION AS SPECIFIED IN AFM 35-9 (I also see: US Government Printing Office 1965 of -795-399). Maybe part of the problem is that the forms were different in 1962...?
In my Dad's chronological listing of service, it shows that he was at Tan Son Nhut in 1969-1970. However, I did notice that some of the citations that accompanied awards for incidents overseas dated before 1969 were NOT places listed on his chronological form. Perhaps if you were promoted or received an award during 1962, your overseas service would be reflected on those other forms?
Another thought that I have is regarding shot records.....Didn't you guys get vaccines before or during Viet Nam? If so, there has got to be proof of them somewhere...maybe that would help lead into what you are looking for?
I doubt that any of this e-mail will be of any help, but I wanted to give it a shot.
Sincerely - Jenny 73-74

Don't know if this helps, but my 214 last year only had military schools attended. Everything else was supposed to come from your records or your personal records(travel vouchers). I have no idea if this is correct. I don't have alot of faith that my retirement clerk was one of the best, I got an ammendment three months after I retired because they got the dates wrong.- Dale 97-02

PERSONNEL RECORDS CENTER NOW ACCEPTING REQUESTS FOR RECORDS ONLINE
The National Personnel Records Center (NPRC), has informed us about an improved method of requesting documents from the NPRC. As you know, the NPRC provides copies of documents from military personnelrecords to authorized requesters. Their new web-based application will provide better service on these requests by eliminating their mailroom processing time. Alsobecause the requester will be asked to supply all information essential for NPRC to process therequest, delays that normally occur when NPRC has to ask veterans for additional informationwill be minimized. You may access this application at:
http://vetrecs.archives.gov
Please note there is no requirement to type "www" in front of the web address. Additionally, this improved on-line request process should be used INSTEAD OF Standard Form 180 from veterans or the veteran's next of kin. Please give this information the widest dissemination. - Dick 65-67

Recently, a fellow named Larry Oleson made an appeal to the Chiefs Group at Barksdale AFB for any assistance anyone could offer in helping certain military personnel who performed TDY in Vietnam to prove such service for medical benefits.
Here's two possibilities:
(1) Special Orders: Copies of all Special Orders issued by any orders issuing headquarters are in the archives of the AF. I don't if these would be in the repository at St. Louis or somewhere else. Ergo, if an individual knew the approximate date(s) of travel to Vietnam, the Special Order might be located.
(2) Per Diem Vouchers: A copy of a per diem voucher should be prima face evidence of travel to and from a particular location. I know copies of these vouchers were maintained by the servicing Finance Office. It is quite possible that copies are maintained by AFAFC, but I have no idea what the retention period would be. Nevertheless, the Pay Record would show the dates of travel and amount paid, but I doubt that it would show the location of the travel. Good luck! - Virgil, CMSgt, USAF (Ret)

Check you reenlistment documents - mine indicate SOUTHEAST ASIA time (Vietnam) when I reenlisted with days credited IN-County. According to the personnel people here that was used exclusively for time in Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos as TDY days as credit to short tour. - Clinton "Crash" '71-'73

I have reviewed my files and found that when I retired in 74, after returning from Clark in 72, that the Clerk who filled out my final DD214 had inserted into the remarks column my TDY time in SEA. But as to going back to try to prove that I was at any given place at any given time would be extremely difficult, if not impossible. Nowhere does it list the various and many places where I played in the mud. Nowhere does it mention that of the 5 tours that I was credited for that part of this time was spent in Cambodia and Laos. For those orders were classified and only recently has our involvement been declassified.
Another thing that I find puzzling. On reviewing the history of many of the various operations that personnel of the Group were involved in deeply, and by this involvement, directly responsible for the out come of some of those operations, not one mention is made of the 1st Mobile as being a contributing factor.
A case in point is Lam Son 719, (Khe Sanh 1971) where the 1st mobile personnel were a major contributor in the outcome of that operation. It was there that this Group, for the only time in it's history, deployed a heavy radar, control tower, Tacan, and all the other gear into a 2500 foot air strip, and contrary to every tech manual that said it was not possible, made them work, and work well IAW the strictest FAA standards. They said you CANNOT transport heavy radar via 130 aircraft. We did it any way. The book said heavy radar will not work on 2,500 strips. We made it work, right out of the box. The ATC personnel involved saved 2 C-130 loads of troops when the pilots were about to penetrate the DMZ due to homing in on a false TACAN signal. They were directly responsible for saving god knows how many helio loads of wounded when the pilots could not fly due to weather. The Controllers IDed the Choppers on the pad and then controlled their lift off and vectored them to Khe Sanh so that the wounded could be treated and then evaced. Yet the history of this operation fails to even mention this Group. This lack of giving credit where credit is due is a grave omission to the records of this Group and the mission that they fulfilled during their involvement in SEA.
Lam Son 719 is only one example where this Group responded to a need, did what was necessary to fulfill that need, then were left out of all historical documentation that would have recorded their participation therein.
Another example was our total involvement in the operations in Laos and Cambodia. Yet, if one reads every document pertaining to these operations, no where is it mentioned that we were there. The fact that it was our teams that did the site surveys of all the remote sites, then cleared the sites and brought in and installed the equipment, under the harshest conditions, is beside the point. In every document written these missions were accomplished "By an Air Force Team". No where is it mentioned that the 1st Mobile Deployed these personnel, unarmed, in civilian clothes, w/o one shred of Identification, into one of the most hostile areas in SEA. It is as if it all was a fairy tail.
Is it too late for this unit and the personnel therein to obtain the credit long past due? Probably. But this glaring omission of giving this unit credit when they more than earned it galls one who was there just a little bit.
SAM (CMSGT, USAF, RET, NCOIC Command Post, 1st Mobile Comm Group 1965-1972)

I remember Larry Olesen. In regards to Proof of in country my dd214 did not specify vietnam but it DID show receiving the Armed Forces Expiditionary ribbon. It Is proof as the only two places on the planet to get that at the time were Nam & the Congo, I don't remember any of us being in Africa. If this helps anyone let me know. Denny '62-'64